Curse

funbun · Feb 13, 2006, 11:52 AM // 11:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurow

When I started this game, I was entranced. I loved the ideas the game was built on, the constant exposure to different builds and different methods of play was wonderful, it allowed me to stay open minded, and to expand my knowledge. I continued through the game with my first character, doing almost everything, there was always something new to strive for. Even after beating the game and becoming level twenty, I worked towards building great PvP builds and the like. I really liked this game.
Looking back on those days are now the same as a man in an unhappy marriage thinking back to the love-filled days of his youth. Now when I play, I find people looking for the newest way to exploit the game, the newest way to farm x, the best build for soloing y. This isn’t what you’re supposed to do. Areanet tries to stop people from doing this. It’s the moment that you start playing the game only to gain gold that it loses its innocence. Id bet every one of you can remember the first time you got to a new area with your first character, and you couldn’t wait to get all the new skills and fight all the cool new enemies. Now what do you think when you get to maguuma jungle with your 3rd or 4th character? It’s only a hassle to go through the game. And why are you making this character? I would bet that at least five times out of ten these characters are created so that someone can use them to farm gold better.
Doing the same run over and over again isn’t fun, in my opinion at least. Killing the same enemies, trying for the same loot, and when you get it, you go and sell it. What is gained? Money. Anything else? Well experience, but otherwise nothing. I don’t want to do these things. I want to play the game like I played it before. I want innocence. I want there to be no 55 monks. I want the level 20-28 enemies to be able to kill any groups with less than 4 people. I want people to not exploit the game. I want people to play it for what it is. But what I want will never happen. There will always be holes in the game; there will always be differences in the characters. There will always be opportunities for players to exploit the game. The people won’t change, its human nature to act like this. So what can I do? I don’t know. I just don’t know. I want the old game back, I want my innocence back.

Possible answer: Factios and the two new chapters per year. That should be plenty ofnew material for you.

As far as innocence go? Have you been to planet Earth lately? Thier ain't no innocence here.

Anyway, Here's where Anet went wrong, and please correct me if I'm wrong. Anet set up a free trade system with no legitimate way to make money. When ppl started running and farming to make money, Anet nerfed everything. If Anet didn't want ppl to farm, they shouldn't have made item/money drops in the first place. I think that's why we're seeing Factions have Alliances fighting for resource points.

I think ppl are farming and running because Anet failed to properly set up a system that didn't rely on capitalism. Any economist would have told them that this wouldn't have worked. I, for one, like free trade and capitalism and running and farming and etc. But that clearly wasn't what Anet had in mind. Hopefully Factions will be a better solution.

Shadowspawn X · Feb 13, 2006, 12:24 PM // 12:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desbreko

Now, with that fact established, think about the price of FoW armor: a million gold or more. But just playing through all the missions -- even playing through all the missions four times, once on each of your character slots -- isn't going to get you a million gold. How, then, does ArenaNet expect anyone to ever get enough gold to buy FoW armor? Well, if playing through the storyline doesn't do it, there's only one other option. And that is farming.

Since you keep going back to FoW armor in your posts for some reason, which has nothing to do with the topic at hand. You at least need to understand that FoW armor is only 60k plus materials. You are giving misinformation when you keep posting its a million gold . Before SF was introduced. FoW/UW was the only repeatable content in the game, put there as a time killer between chapters for people who actually completed the storyline.You only need to play the game as designed and you will get the materials for FoW armor as they are free and only require the time required to do the quests. I do the 11 quests in FoW about 2-3 times a week and UW about once a month there is even a quest down there I have been unable to beat still and provides challange eight months of owning this game. In playing the game as designed I have had the materials for FoW armor pass though my hands more than a couple of times. Never had to come up with a million gold.

The probelm is when you go to make a PUG to clear the quests for these areas. You have people with 170 attribute points instead of 200(causing them to be weaker than a level 20 should be), no skills to choose from (because the only reason they made the toon was to farm and only brought skills for some farming build, leading them to lie about their skill bar to keep from being booted), and a map full of Fog. All because they got ran though the game in record time. All this leads to disaster when attempting the missions for the average player. I have taken many people though the FoW and done all 11 quests giving lots of players the knowledge to do it themselves and take the knowledge back to their guilds. Yet weeks or months later people who have grouped with me are unable to duplicate the runs. I ask them why and they tell me stories of 20,30, 40 failed attempts to organise PUGS and how they all crumble.

My only conclusion is in the rush to farm people lose the regular skills used to play the game or never pick them up at all. Especially the newer generation of players post runners. They must realize at some point that they are unable to complete the quests because they have no foundation which you get from playing the game though with your class as designed, and give up trying in frustration, thus become permanent farmers who could care less about skills, quests and XP, which are the root of PVE.

I am not against farming and and love a simple UW trapping run myself on occassion. But something has been lost in this game because many people cannot complete a quest if they wanted to yet they can solo 500 griffins or whatever. This is neither good or bad , its just the way it is.

Tijger · Feb 13, 2006, 12:40 PM // 12:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by funbun

Possible answer: Factios and the two new chapters per year.
Anyway, Here's where Anet went wrong, and please correct me if I'm wrong. Anet set up a free trade system with no legitimate way to make money. When ppl started running and farming to make money, Anet nerfed everything. If Anet didn't want ppl to farm, they shouldn't have made item/money drops in the first place. I think that's why we're seeing Factions have Alliances fighting for resource points.

Um..so how much money do you 'legitimately' need then?

I've found that even with paying for a runner and buying Droknar armor I have just as much by the time I ascend as I had before I paid a runner and got my Droknars armor. I didnt run anyone nor did I farm anything in between.

Not to mention I could have kept all that money and gone for collector items/weapons, what exactly do you need lots of money for if you just play the game as it was designed?
I get all that money legitimately, if I wanted a specific green item I could also do the work and get it myself.

PS: Anet is not opposed to farming or running, they just feel you need to earn it.

Avarre · Feb 13, 2006, 01:44 PM // 13:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by funbun

Anyway, Here's where Anet went wrong, and please correct me if I'm wrong. Anet set up a free trade system with no legitimate way to make money. When ppl started running and farming to make money, Anet nerfed everything. If Anet didn't want ppl to farm, they shouldn't have made item/money drops in the first place. I think that's why we're seeing Factions have Alliances fighting for resource points.

Would you prefer the Diablo II economy? Hopelessly outclassed if you don't have superb equipment, entire economy based on rare random drops? Would you prefer to have all items priced in rare 15>50s (like sojs or pdsc on d2) rather than plat?

I have always found the guild wars economy comfortable, easy enough to get what you need without too much effort, and vastly superior to many online games.

SilentAssassin · Feb 13, 2006, 01:59 PM // 13:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Would you prefer the Diablo II economy? Hopelessly outclassed if you don't have superb equipment, entire economy based on rare random drops? Would you prefer to have all items priced in rare 15>50s (like sojs or pdsc on d2) rather than plat?

I have always found the guild wars economy comfortable, easy enough to get what you need without too much effort, and vastly superior to many online games.

same here, I've played games like d2 etc... and GuildWars is far superior when it comes to a balanced economy

Tainek · Feb 13, 2006, 02:33 PM // 14:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowspawn X

Since you keep going back to FoW armor in your posts for some reason, which has nothing to do with the topic at hand. You at least need to understand that FoW armor is only 60k plus materials. You are giving misinformation when you keep posting its a million gold ..

i would say that saying it is only 60K is misinformation, the 60K base price is irrelivent, as the materials cost orders more than this (well over a million, Oh, wait a second..)

Ectos=Gold, Simple as

Yichi · Feb 13, 2006, 03:21 PM // 15:21

omg, when will people stop bitching about what others do and just play the damned game for themselves. why is it that we have to have a new thread every other day about this same topic.

Jetdoc · Feb 13, 2006, 03:45 PM // 15:45

All of the various posts in this thread make me chuckle.

1. To those that complain about farming, you have to sit back and say "Why does this upset me?" That falls into three categories:

-- Jealousy. The farmers have tons and tons of gold, and I have none. They can afford the most expensive items (like FoW armor), and I can't. It's not fair. :stompsfoot:

-- Drops. Although this is arguable, I would say that this should NOT affect they way you play the game, since the best equipment out there is only slightly better than the collector's items.

-- Playing with Others. Like the Map Travel example above, it causes the quality of PuG's to decline. Honestly, if you do PvE with a max group, there are only a handful of missions that you should have difficulty with EVEN with a bad PuG.

If I missed one, please elaborate how farming affects YOU.

2. For all of those who say "I've done everything in the game, so now all I can do is farm." I call B.S. on this one. If you have not SOLOED the game, without henchmen, without using a 55HP whatever (Monk, Necro, Elementalist, etc.), then you have not "run out of things to do". Start by trying to solo Grenth's Footprint. Or one of the desert/southern shiverpeak missions. Don't resign yourself to "it's impossible".

That's the beauty of GuildWars...it's easy enough to complete with massive groups, but it's hard as all get out if you make it your personal challenge to do it alone. A great example of this is Racintoh's soloing the FoW with a warrior thread. He played with his build and the various skills until he found a way to do it. And I bet that he now has an intimate knowledge of most of the skills that most of us have just "glanced over"...the thrill and agony of trial and error can expand the enjoyment of this game tenfold.

I have played this game over 1,000 hours, don't play much PvP (only for a change once in a while), and have only "farmed" for ONE IDS (which I did for a challenge to see if I could do it with the buffs). And I'm still having a blast, starting JUST my second character (a N/Me that is soloing everything as well).

Ghull Ka · Feb 13, 2006, 06:29 PM // 18:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loralai

I can see the OP's point, however, I lean more toward the idea of, "play the game your way, let others play theirs." We ALL paid for the game. If a 55 monk is farming Augry Rock, it's not affecting my game in the slightest, so why should I care?

Naturally this is what I must do. I must let everyone play the game the way they want to play it. They're using the game as ANet designed it and it is not my place to stop them.

But...

Sigh...

It's just a bummer, sometimes, when I want to play "legit". Case in point: Go to Divinity Coast or Gates of Kryta or The Wilds. Find a PUG consisting of 100% "is not wearing drok armor" folks. This is somewhat difficult to do. Playing Gates of Kryta with a W/Mo in 15k, when you're trying to play a legit, "hasn't been run anywhere, hasn't touched storage, only used what i've found so far for the challenge of it all" character ruins the whole game for me. So I use henchies, and henchies suck. So I try to find other "legit" PUGs out there, and I get called a clueless noob because I *haven't* been run to drok.

No, I'm not terribly upset and I'm not losing any sleep over it, it's just a bit of a bummer sometimes.

And Kimi's still legit, btw... Sanctum Cay is next. ;-)

Ghull Ka · Feb 13, 2006, 06:52 PM // 18:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowspawn X

Since you keep going back to FoW armor in your posts for some reason, which has nothing to do with the topic at hand. You at least need to understand that FoW armor is only 60k plus materials. You are giving misinformation when you keep posting its a million gold.
<snip!>
You only need to play the game as designed and you will get the materials for FoW armor as they are free and only require the time required to do the quests.
<snip!>
In playing the game as designed I have had the materials for FoW armor pass though my hands more than a couple of times. Never had to come up with a million gold.

OK... uh... I really must have missed the quest that awards 105 globs of ectoplasm and 105 obsidian shards. Please fill me in on where this one is. Either that, or you are horribly mistaken, lying, or both.

105 obsidian shards at 3.5k each = 367,500 gold
105 globs of ectoplasm at (the all time low price) 7k each = 735,000 gold
5 pieces of armor (because I'm a warrior) at 15k each = 75,000 gold
Assuming the rest of the crafting materials are negligible in price, that brings the "basic" price for FoW armor to 1,177,500 gold.

Note, the prices I quoted for ecto and shards are "open market" price; the price at the traders is much higher.

Misinformation < Math.

trevok · Feb 13, 2006, 07:04 PM // 19:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by funbun

I think ppl are farming and running because Anet failed to properly set up a system that didn't rely on capitalism. Any economist would have told them that this wouldn't have worked. I, for one, like free trade and capitalism and running and farming and etc. But that clearly wasn't what Anet had in mind. Hopefully Factions will be a better solution.

I suspect you're using words that you don't know the meaning of. For an economy to be capitalist it needs to have capital. There is no capital in Guild Wars so you're correct that the Guild Wars economy is not capitalist. However if you were to introduce capital into the game, it would mean that in order to generate wealth, you'd need to use some kind of item to make money, and the more of this item you had, the more money you'd be able to make. Rather than just going out and killing monsters to make money, which everyone can do by default. Furthermore the amount of this item would be limited and thus very expensive. Therefore only the very rich would have the means to make money, which would entirely destroy the economy of the game, because unlike in real life where the motivation to get a job and therefore be exploited by a capitalist is that you need money to pay for housing, food etc. in a video game you're playing for fun, and being exploited isn't fun, and no one would play the game because making money would be extremely time consuming and the worse kind of grind imaginable.

Grimm · Feb 13, 2006, 08:41 PM // 20:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghull Ka

OK... uh... I really must have missed the quest that awards 105 globs of ectoplasm and 105 obsidian shards. Please fill me in on where this one is. Either that, or you are horribly mistaken, lying, or both.

105 obsidian shards at 3.5k each = 367,500 gold
105 globs of ectoplasm at (the all time low price) 7k each = 735,000 gold
5 pieces of armor (because I'm a warrior) at 15k each = 75,000 gold
Assuming the rest of the crafting materials are negligible in price, that brings the "basic" price for FoW armor to 1,177,500 gold.

Note, the prices I quoted for ecto and shards are "open market" price; the price at the traders is much higher.

Misinformation < Math.

Are you dense? He's saying you *dont have to buy the materials*. You can *find* them in the Underworld and Fissure of Woe. I've never bought materials for any of my armor, I find and save them up.

Shadowspawn X · Feb 13, 2006, 08:48 PM // 20:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghull Ka

OK... uh... I really must have missed the quest that awards 105 globs of ectoplasm and 105 obsidian shards. Please fill me in on where this one is. Either that, or you are horribly mistaken, lying, or both.
.

They are not quest rewards and I never said they were. how did you deduce that? If you run though all the quests you get more drops than just farming thats the point. Its much easier for the average player to invest some time in solving these quests and making a couple of clearance runs per week than trying some farming gimmick to get millions of plat. What is it that you can't understand about that?
Only a fool would spend 3.5k for a shard or 7k for a glob when for 1k fee to UW/FoW you get 100k XP 1-9 shards/globs 3-10k in assorted loot and a chance for an uber drop. If that is too complicated for your brain to digest, too bad. As for lying I got over 7 million XP on my ranger and that speaks for itself.

I'm trying to help people by giving them advice that works and is achievable for the average Joe to get their armor quickly and realistcally. How do you think the materals get in the vender? That stuff drops all day long everyday I'm just telling people go get it. It only costs you a little time. People like you are what the OP is talking about, you looking for a shortcut to strike it rich and buy it all once at some inflated price. cause you can't be bothered to do a few quest. Good luck with that cause it dont work.

Desbreko · Feb 14, 2006, 12:52 AM // 00:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowspawn X

Since you keep going back to FoW armor in your posts for some reason, which has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

I'm using FoW armor as an illustration for my argument. You could replace it with any rare, high cost item and my argument would still work, FoW armor just happens to be the most commonly sought after. But whatever rare item you're looking for, ArenaNet put it in the game to be found/bought, and the only way they made to do that is farming. And because they made that the only way, they must have meant for people to farm in order to get such items.

Seriously, how many times do I have to say this before people see that the logic behind it is solid? Every counter argument I've seen hasn't even tried to directly refute it, but rather, tries to attack the illustration.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowspawn X

You at least need to understand that FoW armor is only 60k plus materials. You are giving misinformation when you keep posting its a million gold . Before SF was introduced. FoW/UW was the only repeatable content in the game, put there as a time killer between chapters for people who actually completed the storyline.You only need to play the game as designed and you will get the materials for FoW armor as they are free and only require the time required to do the quests. I do the 11 quests in FoW about 2-3 times a week and UW about once a month there is even a quest down there I have been unable to beat still and provides challange eight months of owning this game. In playing the game as designed I have had the materials for FoW armor pass though my hands more than a couple of times. Never had to come up with a million gold.

Um . . . no. I'm sorry, but you're flat out wrong about the cost.

You're right in saying FoW armor costs 60k plus materials, but guess what -- those materials make up the other 940k. (And before someone goes off about how FoW armor isn't exactly 1 million gold, I realize this; it's an approximation used for the ease of the illustration.) Whether you find or buy them doesn't change their worth because, instead of using all those ectos/shards you find to craft FoW armor, you can sell them and get that 940k instead of the armor. So, whether you find or buy the materials you use to craft FoW armor, you've still spent a million gold on it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowspawn X

The probelm is when you go to make a PUG to clear the quests for these areas. You have people with 170 attribute points instead of 200(causing them to be weaker than a level 20 should be), no skills to choose from (because the only reason they made the toon was to farm and only brought skills for some farming build, leading them to lie about their skill bar to keep from being booted), and a map full of Fog. All because they got ran though the game in record time. All this leads to disaster when attempting the missions for the average player. I have taken many people though the FoW and done all 11 quests giving lots of players the knowledge to do it themselves and take the knowledge back to their guilds. Yet weeks or months later people who have grouped with me are unable to duplicate the runs. I ask them why and they tell me stories of 20,30, 40 failed attempts to organise PUGS and how they all crumble.

I agree, this is a problem. I also dislike people getting run places on their first character, then ruining parties in high level areas because they have no clue how to actually play the game. In fact, this is a very personal problem for me, as I have still not found a single group to clear either the UW or FoW with. (Which is something I would really like to do.) Either the PUG dies after a couple quests or people leave/get disconnected, and it's led me to just not bother very often unless I'm grouping with people I know.

So I'd love to be able to clear the UW and FoW in real parties, finding all the materials I need, but that just doesn't seem possible anymore unless you know a lot of other good players who are willing to group with you. Not when you sit down to play for a good three-plus hours and find two of those being wasted by incompetent PUGs who can't get past the first quest. After being frustrated by that many times, I've turned to a different way of amassing the gold necessary for FoW armor. I play other high level areas such as SF and Tombs, which seem to be a little more manageable for the standard PUG, and I do some griffon/troll farming as well.

But here's my point, and I'll even put it in bold so you can't miss it: Even if I were clearing the UW/FoW with full eight man parties and "play[ing] the game as designed," looking for those ectos/shards myself, I'd still be farming. I would be playing the same areas over and over, looking for the items/gold necessary for FoW armor or whatever else I want to buy, which is the most commonly used definition of the word "farming" when used in the context of a video game. And since that is the only way to get FoW armor or other super-rare items, ArenaNet had to expect people to do it, yet took no steps to stop it except in the most extreme cases. Thus, farming is an intentional part of the game, and one of the reasons why UW/FoW/SF quests are repeatable.

The only time farming is not a valid part of the game is when it's abused through bots or commercial gold farmers who sell gold on eBay and such. And guess what -- that's the only type of farming ArenaNet has attempted to stop. When a normal player is doing it, they obviously must get some form of fun out of it, or else they wouldn't be spending their free time on it. And if people have fun farming, and the point of the game is to have fun, why is farming wrong? It isn't, plain and simple.

Now, if you play the UW/FoW just for the fun of it and don't care about getting FoW armor or a ton of gold or whatever -- good for you. When I can find a decent group, that's the primary reason I play those areas as well; ecto/shard drops are just a bonus. If I played only to farm, I would have a 55HP monk and do UW farming that way, but that just doesn't seem fun to me. I value entertainment first, FoW armor second. This, however, is a personal opinion and does not hold any weight in an argument over whether farming is right or wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowspawn X

My only conclusion is in the rush to farm people lose the regular skills used to play the game or never pick them up at all. Especially the newer generation of players post runners. They must realize at some point that they are unable to complete the quests because they have no foundation which you get from playing the game though with your class as designed, and give up trying in frustration, thus become permanent farmers who could care less about skills, quests and XP, which are the root of PVE.

I don't think that's the main reason there are so many bad players out there. At least for new players, I think the main thing is just impatience. They don't want to bother with the starting "noob" areas, so they get run to higher level areas. Then they find out they suck -- whether they admit it to themselves or not -- because they didn't bother learning how to play properly. Whether they then turn to farming or whatever, I don't know, but I doubt many people pick up Guild Wars for the first time and think, "Ooh, another game to mindlessly farm!"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowspawn X

I am not against farming and and love a simple UW trapping run myself on occassion. But something has been lost in this game because many people cannot complete a quest if they wanted to yet they can solo 500 griffins or whatever. This is neither good or bad , its just the way it is.

Agreed. But that's entirely the fault of the people playing, not the game's. If people do nothing but farm, that's their choice. They payed the same $50 for the game we did, so I figure, let them. I doubt they'd be doing it if they didn't get some sort of satisfaction out of it, and since ArenaNet hasn't taken any drastic steps to stop them, I can't see that they have much of a problem with it.

Ken Dei · Feb 14, 2006, 07:34 AM // 07:34

Read the first page of resposes (usually the next couple are rehashed of blinding flashes of the obvious)

I am a farmer, I like farming, I'm good at it, and it passes the time. But I am not so stupid, or so arrogent as to pretend that my farming does not have an effect to others, and yes that is what I really think of people who hold the position "It doesn't bother your gameplay, shut up."

Sorry, but every action you take, or do not take has an effect on everyone in the game.

For example, if there weren't so many farmers, runes might not be AS worthless as they are now. If there weren't so many farmers, people might actually have to, god forbid, buy weapons that weren't max damage in Ascalon.

As for Runners, I see them as the most perverse and disturbing form of farmer. They don't farm mobs, they farm people, they farm the community. Say what you want about runners, they have a bad effect on the game. One A.Net probably secretly kicks themselves for. They cause/tempt people who would not normally be lazy to take the easy route, to gain no skill with thier class. That in turn robs the community of potentially good players. Personally, I see running as a disease. I never run anyone for any price. Take you somewhere close by, like Ascalon to Sardelac, sure, free, but you help kill things along the way. Most of the time I won't even do that, I give to general directions, a landmark if there is one, and an idea of what challenge to expect to get there. After that, get going, you have learning to do.

The thin line between helping someone and running them is if they learn anything. And it can usually be defined with this "$"

Tainek · Feb 14, 2006, 10:16 AM // 10:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Dei

As for Runners, I see them as the most perverse and disturbing form of farmer. They don't farm mobs, they farm people, they farm the community. Say what you want about runners, they have a bad effect on the game. One A.Net probably secretly kicks themselves for. They cause/tempt people who would not normally be lazy to take the easy route, to gain no skill with thier class. That in turn robs the community of potentially good players. Personally, I see running as a disease. I never run anyone for any price. Take you somewhere close by, like Ascalon to Sardelac, sure, free, but you help kill things along the way. Most of the time I won't even do that, I give to general directions, a landmark if there is one, and an idea of what challenge to expect to get there. After that, get going, you have learning to do.

The thin line between helping someone and running them is if they learn anything. And it can usually be defined with this "$"

Anet Designed the game with Running in mind, if i have played the game through with 5 other characters give me ONE damnned good reason why i should have to go through all the missions again, WHICH *I* WOULD NOT ENJOY. there are plenty more like me. And as far as the "it tempts first-timers to rush through the game" argument

1: They have made this choice themself, i have not forced them, nobody else has forced them.

2: The only way a firstimer could afford, say a droks run, is if they ebayed gold when they started (and this makes the argument moot, theyre already skipping large chunks of the game) , a run to droks plus a full set of droks costs 10+ platinum, just playing mission by mission, i had about this when i entered the desert!

Runners Earn theyre money, we have to spend large amounts of time (and often money) learning a run, and large amounts of time practicing so we are good enough to perform for a fee, then even more time gathering clients and performing the run, god forbid we get scammed.

We dont "farm the community" or "farm people" any more that a cleaning ladly farms the real life community, or a doctor, or firemen Heck, even Anet, its Called *providing a service*

A Few Simple Facts:

Farming keeps the prices of Runes, Rare Weapons, and especially materials down, this is a GOOD thing (tm) for player average .joe - if more of all of these are entering the market, then there is less demand, and less price

Running Does not affect anyone who chooses not to be run, if you enjoy playing the entire game and seeing everything half a dozen times, Fine, but dont force that on me, or any of the rest of us. players who get to the fire islands clueless, are very often, just not very smart, and tend to stay clueless. if you want to stop this, then suggest anet ensures ascention tests our basic abiltys as you leave pre-sear (quest, map travel here, do this do that, a 5 min short course)

TBH, i played the game through several times honestly, and on my third go, i knew all the missions like the back of my hand, this is a better advantage than any high level armour/weapon could provide, i snoozed through the whole thing

I think the title of this thread is amazingly apt, the True perversion of Guild wars are selfish people, who cannot understand that other people like different things that they do, and call foul because they dont like it/dont enjoy it

Say what you want about Farmers and Runners, we have a good effect on the game, Otherwise Anet wouldnt tolerate, or Encourage us (yes, encouragement) we sure as hell arnt going anywhere

moriz · Feb 14, 2006, 01:57 PM // 13:57

the "perversion" of guildwars started as soon as the forums became available.

after all, how many clueless newbies will know what a 55 monk build without checking here? how many will know that they can be run anywhere without checking here? how many will know the entire storyline in 5 minutes, if they didn't check here? granted, the forums are a great help, and i was spared of being ripped off of selling my black dyes for 100 gold a month ago. but if preserving the so-called "innocence" of guildwars is the first priority, start by shutting down every forum about it out there, and while we're at it, shut down sites that provide in-depth info, such as this site and guildwiki.org. yes, eventually those clueless newbies WILL find out about the 55 monk build, WILL find out that he can get run anywhere, and WILL know the entire storyline. but that will hopefully be after he played through a significant chunk of the game.

anyways, sorry for sounding like a prick, but the answer is just too obvious.

Caged Fury · Feb 14, 2006, 02:32 PM // 14:32

LMAO. Is there anyone else who could be blamed for the perversion of GW?

Oh I know, the guy at PC World who allowed me to buy GW in the first place. If he didn't let me buy a copy of the game, I wouldn't have had fun playing the game, exploring places, trying different professions, and trying out a farming build or two.

[ADDED]
Yes, I farm and I enjoy it. But that doesn't stop me from enjoying the fun of doing quests and missions, and going out to explore the unknown. I find them all enjoyable aspects of GW and they are enjoyable in different ways.

Kakumei · Feb 14, 2006, 03:33 PM // 15:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desbreko

Thus, farming is an intentional part of the game, and one of the reasons why UW/FoW/SF quests are repeatable.

Ha. I forgot about that. That right there shuts down pretty much every "Anet doesn't want you to farm, it's not part of the game" argument.

Why, then, did they make the quests repeatable?

SpeedyKQ · Feb 14, 2006, 04:20 PM // 16:20

I have no issue with farming, but I've never understood running.

What I don't get is, why are people making new PVE characters and not playing the game with them? When I see a level 9 at Thunderhead keep, who has obviously skipped most of the game, I wonder what is this person trying to get out of their Guild Wars experience?

I don't mean this as an insult - I'm all for live and let live - it is a legitimate question.